Curse

Loviatar · Nov 12, 2006, 11:51 PM // 23:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by WasAGuest

The OP was probably looking for like minded people possibly to brain storm new ideals or even build up a list of things to forward as suggestions to Anet, so that like minded people could work together. - Instead, it turns into a flame war because non-like minded people feel the need to tell others how to play the game, go play something else or even just give up and leave.

t.

when they have restricted threads restricted to posts only by people who agree than you can bitch about it.

until then i have just as much right to post that your opinion is total Bandini (the finest name in fertilizer) in my opinion and dont tell me just to ignore the smell as i go by .

you are free express your opinion but i am to shut up and move on?

lacasner · Nov 12, 2006, 11:56 PM // 23:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trvth Jvstice

Though I understand that some players ONLY enjoy the farming and selling parts of the game, I'm sure that these people represent a very small art of the gaming community. Pre-searing is packed, Shing Jae is packed and of course the newb area of Elona is packed. There are obviously tons more people that play the game as it was meant to be played.

I don't however, have the attitude, "if you don't like it then just leave" that some here have. There has never been a time in the 13 months that I've been playing, that I felt like the farmers were hurting the game or causing any problem whatsoever. So I can't understand Anet's choice to nerf the farming builds. Can someone name one legitimate problem that farming caused? I don't believe that the bot farmers even caused any problems.

It probably sounds like I'm trying to take both sides, but I don't see any reason to take a side. I can see the farmers and the regular game
player's point of view.

Also: Some of you are really emotional aren't you? How about taking a deep cleansing breath and counting to ten before you post.

It's packed? Wow, whenever I go there i see about 5 districts tops (shing jae) and over 40% of those are practically just full of npc's. Btw, there is a reason to take a side, because whats the point of posting anything here if your satisfied with the game?

Angelica · Nov 13, 2006, 12:19 AM // 00:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by w00t!

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Learn and adapt.

Learn and adapt? Why would the game less boring or frustrating?

Trvth Jvstice · Nov 13, 2006, 12:22 AM // 00:22

@ lacasner: Apparently the OP wanted to discuss the problems caused by Anet's changes of the enemy AI and the nerf of popular farming builds. I believe that's what I did. My point was that for most players, it isn't a problem, but that I didn't have a problem with farmers or farming. You're just being confrontational.

Also: 5 districts for Shing Jae is a Lot of people. Of course it will never be as packed as it was before Nightfall came out. With more campaigns, people are more spread out, but having 5 districts shows that there are still tons of people starting the game.

Jetdoc · Nov 13, 2006, 12:31 AM // 00:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sidra

Absolutely, positively ignorant and condescending of you to say that about people when you obviously haven't even read the entire topic. GG.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sidra

Natuxatu was pronounced braindead 20 seconds ago

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sidra

No need to flame, bloodrose. Tone it down or this might get locked. :-S

You really need to take your own advice, Sidra. Disagreeing with my post is one thing. Calling me ignorant and condescending at the same time is, well...I'll let you figure that out.

Simply put, I'm not telling you how to play the game.

However, I believe that many of the posters in this thread are playing the game in a manner by which they are much more susceptible to getting bored with the game.

There is a very strong sense of entitlement in many posts in this thread. In short, people feel that they paid to be entertained. And once that entertainment has ended for them, they feel "shortchanged".

I completely understand that point of view. However, as I stated in my post, it is very much a by-product of effectively rushing through the product that they paid for. Yes, the nerfs have taken away some of the fun that they used to have after (or while) completing the game via killing mindless, stationary enemies. Yet, I don't believe that those aspects of the game were core in what they were developing with Nightfall, and in future series.

I respect your ability to disagree with my views. But to belittle the person making those views to try to put yourself in a "superior" position...wow.

lacasner · Nov 13, 2006, 12:34 AM // 00:34

Jet, you do agree with the statement you get what you pay for though, right?

Jetdoc · Nov 13, 2006, 12:39 AM // 00:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Narutoscryed

IOnce again im sorry. but i think i need to remind you just who invented that cookie cutter that you yourself prolly use to this day.

The issue here is not the pace that we took the game.. its the fact that the games content is being so centralized into one aspect. that it is leaving no room for enjoyment after the completion of the game. IE: running,farming and we as consumers need to inform anet that this is not the route to go if they want a continuing fanbase for the games that they have.

Very good points, Narutoscryed. I always appreciate a very well put counterpoint.

Again, I believe there is a very good correlation to enjoying the game and innovating in the game. But that is another argument for another thread.

The base argument, as I pointed out to another poster earlier, is that players are looking for something to do after they complete the game. I don't believe that A-Net has intended farming and running to be the ultimate "endgame" after completion, which is pretty evident in their changing of the enemy AI.

However, if there is enough uproar, I can see A-Net backing down on this standpoint, as not to piss off their fanbase, as you point out above. It's a tough decision to make, however, as farming goes against the "non-grind" mantra that they've been promoting since day one.

Jetdoc · Nov 13, 2006, 12:45 AM // 00:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by lacasner

Jet, you do agree with the statement you get what you pay for though, right?

Absolutely. Yet, you need to have a reasonable expectation of what you are purchasing when you pay for it.

A-Net has gradually been pushing us away from farming and running for a while now. The change in AI was a next logical step, especially coupled with the introduction of heroes as another means by which to play the game.

Again, I'm not slamming those that are claiming that they are bored. I am giving a reasonable explanation as to (1) the source of their boredom and (2) the things that they can do to alleviate that boredom. If you expected something different in Nightfall, then you have every right to feel that you did not get your money's worth in Nightfall. However, I believe that there are ways through which you can "squeeze every cent" out of that money you paid, such that you can truly get what you pay for, as you state above.

Sid Soggybottom · Nov 13, 2006, 12:50 AM // 00:50

The problem is that there will always be a few that are bored. And among the bored are several different reasons why they are bored. How do you propose anyone pleasing everyone all the time? It's impossible. That's why people are telling the bored people to just take a break or play something else, especially since boredom is such a subjective thing...what else can people tell you that can solve your problems? Other than a drastic new change that you happen to like as well, that is....

natuxatu · Nov 13, 2006, 12:55 AM // 00:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by WasAGuest

Further, you tell the players who just paid $50 or more for the game to not play anymore if they are bored, yet we have no way to get that $50 returned. This change took effect days after the games release, thus making that $50 hardly worth a value it is capable of.

No, the players should not leave nor stop voicing their concerns. In fact, we should be looking for a more direct way to contact Anet to voice these issues so they don't get buried in the "un-needed arguments" and other toss offs concerned players keep having to hear.

Simply said, once Anet fixes the AI and makes the game fun again (from all perspectives of long term play); then players will weather and hang on through the bugs and lack of standard online rpg things: such as auction houses, ability to alter appearance, lfg system... and more.

But as someone said you get what you paid for you. When you bought Guild Wars you knew or would know the online experience may change if you read the agreement. You're getting what you agreed to, bored or not. I'm sure we've all bought games that bored us. I bought a game that bored me after an hour *cough* D&D:Online *cough* (my opinion!... though I'm sure it's shared.) Yet I moved on because I could tell that even with slight adjustments this still would not be the game for me.

There is a big difference to what I'm saying (or meant to say) which is if you don't like the game and are bored to try something else. If you DO enjoy the game but recently got bored after over a year of play then that is understandable and the concerns should be more specific (which some posts were) but others were complaining that Nightfall was boring after a week and if that's how you feel you're not going to like it even with little adjustments. Those are the people I was referring to.

Loviatar · Nov 13, 2006, 12:58 AM // 00:58

this game is not the *neverending chapter*

it has an end where you *FINISH* the game.

i have seen a great number of people saying it was the best yet and *I FINISHED IT*

if this were an offline game you would play as much more of it as you felt like after *finishing it* than put it on the shelf until the next chapter came out and grab that.

just because it is played online does not entitle you to guaranteed entertainment for 6 months.

the best was the person who demanded Anet compensate him/her for the loss of income.

notice that almost all the bitching is

LOST INCOME
MORE TIME SPENT FOR EQUAL INCOME

attention farmer/big wheeler dealer the government is cutting way back on your farming subsity and none too soon

Sid Soggybottom · Nov 13, 2006, 12:59 AM // 00:59

Also, it's inevitable that people will get bored of something after a year and a half no matter how great it is. There's really nothing that can be done if you're that bored of a game, except for a complete rehauling but that would ruin it for others that do enjoy the game as it currently is. So it's best to just move on.

Jetdoc · Nov 13, 2006, 01:01 AM // 01:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by WasAGuest

The OP was probably looking for like minded people possibly to brain storm new ideals or even build up a list of things to forward as suggestions to Anet, so that like minded people could work together. - Instead, it turns into a flame war because non-like minded people feel the need to tell others how to play the game, go play something else or even just give up and leave. Valid issues and concerns may not be valid to everyone. If you don't agree with a thread, ignore it.

Just my opinion, and I'll leave it at that.

I respect your opinion, however I really take exceptions to a few things:

1. Not everyone that actually appreciates why a change was made to the game is a "fanboy".

2. A forum is a place to express opinions and hear what others have to say about those opinions. Posting your opinion and expecting everyone to simply agree with you (or otherwise ignore you) makes a forum like this worthless.

I don't expect everyone to agree with my opinions. But I sure as hell don't expect people to dismiss them categorically by labeling them or otherwise attempting to belittle them. Debate is the most useful form of feedback that A-Net can get for determining whether a change should be made or not. One sided complaints are not.

Shadow · Nov 13, 2006, 01:02 AM // 01:02

Remember when Monks could solo efficiently UW? Good times. Not particularly pleased with the recent AI/spirit bond/dreadnought's armor changes. Never before have I experienced boredom to this degree pertaining to GW. Farming is something I like to do, but the "crops" are limited now. It was nice have various options. Now I have two places that I know I can farm, both of which aren't terribly enjoyable to farm. I've beaten Nightfall(which I enjoyed very much I might add, but wouldn't dream of playing through it again anytime soon), and am finding myself... rather bored now that it's over. I guess I'll be taking a break for a while, as I've made myself sick of GW by farming the same two places.

I've experimented with several builds some using heros and so on, yet none worked. Hopefully something will change to excite some interest. Maybe some new builds and farming locations will surface by then. I mean, it's an online game. It should be able to hold my interest longer than a week, monthly fees or no. Anet seriously needs to reconsider the road they're going down.

I am not a pvper. I tried.. I just found I lack the natural tact for that. Too high pressure, etc. Farming is just more enjoyable, as some of it actually provides a challenge(and benifit), while the only person there to feel my short comings is myself, usually. I just want to be able to do something that I enjoy until without Anet breaking out the nerf bat and saying,"We don't want you to do that. Go PvP." That's just my two cents..

Sidra · Nov 13, 2006, 01:41 AM // 01:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jetdoc

Absolutely. Yet, you need to have a reasonable expectation of what you are purchasing when you pay for it.

A-Net has gradually been pushing us away from farming and running for a while now. The change in AI was a next logical step, especially coupled with the introduction of heroes as another means by which to play the game.

Again, I'm not slamming those that are claiming that they are bored. I am giving a reasonable explanation as to (1) the source of their boredom and (2) the things that they can do to alleviate that boredom. If you expected something different in Nightfall, then you have every right to feel that you did not get your money's worth in Nightfall. However, I believe that there are ways through which you can "squeeze every cent" out of that money you paid, such that you can truly get what you pay for, as you state above.

There was nothing reasonable about that random checklist post that you made. You decided that this thing was this way as a constant, replied accordingly, and ended up to be wrong. My guild is filled with people (and a lot of people in the alliance, too) who are discontented with the game. Most of them are still bringing other characters over, exploring the newbie zones, and whatnot. I barely see anybody posting here saying "i rushed. give me more stuff because i payed and didnt listen to the 'you've been playing for 5 hours, take a break' message". I don't know if you realized this, but natuxatu wasn't saying anything besides "quit gw". It got very annoying. More people (myself probably included) need to think before they post in this thread. We expect a GW chapter when we buy something. Not a radical change in the entire game's AI, completely nerfed drops, and an incomplete game. To bring up something that I probably shouldn't just to point something out- ever speculated on why the Prima guide was cancelled so quickly in tandem with the Nightfall release?

Sidra · Nov 13, 2006, 01:55 AM // 01:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by w00t!

The point is, and it was made well by someone earlier, that the GuildWarsGuru community does not represent a large demographic for Anet. And the constant complainers are an even smaller population.

The GWG community may not be a large demographic, but it is one of if not the oldest and largest fansite (i think, don't quote me. I don't remember where I heard that) on GuildWars still in existance to date. 100,000+ members, people joining daily, and a 2 recent break of 2 million posts kind of defeats what you're trying to say. Like I said earlier, the largest demographic is probably those who don't give any input at all. Which is why in-game feedback (which would probably be abused

) and the bug-report-system being implemented might help them a lot. Anyway- this entire thread is getting more and more on the personal level and less about overall discussion and thinking (which is what it probably was about). I partially blame myself for that XD. I call too many people out.

But- I think we should at least try to assemble a neater list of exactly WHAT we're all at each others throat's about so that if anybody from ANet DOES decide to read this topic, it isn't dismissed as a gigantic flame war from the 4th or 5th page on. I'll post my main thing first.

Apparent conflict of interest between (what may possibly be a very small, not cared about demographic) of player and maker.

Loviatar · Nov 13, 2006, 02:12 AM // 02:12

@ Sidra

Anet has the hour by hour logs of exactly how many people are doing any activity in the game.

the forums (and this is not the oldest by a long shot and i dont think the biggest) are only a very tiny fraction and varies widely in opinion from site to site.

visit TGH if you need proof on that.

Anet is giving the vast majority of the players what they have shown they wanted by how they played the game not forum whined.

whines can go any direction and that was not aimed at you.

good nite all

WasAGuest · Nov 13, 2006, 02:14 AM // 02:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

when they have restricted threads restricted to posts only by people who agree than you can bitch about it.

until then i have just as much right to post that your opinion is total Bandini (the finest name in fertilizer) in my opinion and dont tell me just to ignore the smell as i go by .

you are free express your opinion but i am to shut up and move on?

You know me better than that Loviatar - we've picked back and forth for how long now? You know that's not at all what I meant.

The point I was making that instead of jumping into a thread for the sole purpose of argueing (as some have); add something to it. Personal opinions are always good and can shed possible light to seeing something differently.
However, argueing to attempt to change ones' mind is, as you know, a lost cause and often cause to derail a topic or simply start a flame war to have a thread closed.

BTW, haven't seen you posting much lately... wondered where you were hiding.

Loviatar · Nov 13, 2006, 02:17 AM // 02:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by WasAGuest

You know me better than that Loviatar - we've picked back and forth for how long now? You know that's not at all what I meant.

The point I was making that instead of jumping into a thread for the sole purpose of argueing (as some have); add something to it. Personal opinions are always good and can shed possible light to seeing something differently.
However, argueing to attempt to change ones' mind is, as you know, a lost cause and often cause to derail a topic or simply start a flame war to have a thread closed.

BTW, haven't seen you posting much lately... wondered where you were hiding.

my apologies on that as it did seem out of character for you.

really got to go.

nite all

lacasner · Nov 13, 2006, 02:39 AM // 02:39

Well, when I look at this I really see it as a question of ethics and motives:

Is Anet supposed to provide us with "new" content and ideas even after we've payed for the game, or is just black and white you get what you paid for? Yes, they have their money, but with so many bored players and people leaving to other games, what will it say for Guild Wars future? Is Anet content with what they have now, and how can they be so sure players will continually buy these new chapters being made?

I did not get Nightfall, and I probably won't be getting any more chapters until an EXPANSION is made. That is what Guild Wars lacks: expansions to its content. It abandons areas, people are just standing afk or talkign about pointless things. Of course, with no monthly fee expansions wouldn't be logical, because the company would be making 0 profits from it.

But still, it just saddens me a game with such great potential comes to this pitiful state because of greed. But nevertheless, the squeeky wheel does get the grease, so I will continue to fight for what I think is right, no matter what anyone else says.I payed for this game, I should be entitled to new content to keep me interested. Its not wonder so many great players like dirrty and ecto ftw are leaving, except people only notice them and not the countless others.

So, really its up to Anet, I doubt anything will change, history has proven hopes have been neglected, so people will move on to new games. Ehh, I guess I just have a sentimental feel to this one and my characters, like the wonder I first experienced when I was at pre searing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sid Soggybottom

The problem is that there will always be a few that are bored. And among the bored are several different reasons why they are bored. How do you propose anyone pleasing everyone all the time? It's impossible. That's why people are telling the bored people to just take a break or play something else, especially since boredom is such a subjective thing...what else can people tell you that can solve your problems? Other than a drastic new change that you happen to like as well, that is....

Yes, but it doesn't have to be this way. Anet really doesn't seem to be doing things to pleasing others, just themselves.